Tuesday, April 24, 2007

Art, or art history? Painting, or sculpture?

Top: Bernini, Bacchanal: A Faun Teased by Children

Bottom: Poussin, Bacchanal before a Statue of Pan

Though not about Baroque art per se, Conrad Roth of Varieties of Unreligious Experience has up a thoughtful, closely-argued post addressing just these questions. Roth arrives at a couple of (for me) surprising conclusions, the money quotes of which are below.

Roth notes that, traditionally, painting has been held in higher regard than sculpture because art criticism tends to work from reproductions--engravings or drawings--and paintings naturally will suffer less from 2-dimensional renderings than sculptures will. But consider this:

For [Johann Gottfried] Herder, . . . mere visual sensation is inadequate to an understanding of space, and therefore of Being: 'sight is but an abbreviated form of touch. The rounded form becomes a mere figure, the statue a flat engraving. Sight gives us dreams, touch gives us truth'. Sculpture is greater than painting because it is not confined, as painting is, to the image, to the eye—in Platonic terms, its subject is truth, not dreams or impressions. It cannot be reduced to a series of views, 'dismembered into a pitiful polygon'. Where the painter merely depicts, the sculptor, like God fashioning Adam, creates. The spiritual power of sculpture, as Herder explains towards the end of his treatise, is witnessed by primitive idol-worship; the ancients were aware, he thinks, that the statue must always be an image of the soul, of the world of Forms, bodied forth.

But then Roth expresses his own preference in sculpture for "the unfinished, fragmentary and deliquescent," because
in being (or appearing) incomplete, these sculptures call into question the primacy of the eye. If visual beauty arises from perfect form, these works decline such standards; rather they invite the mind to complete them—what Gombrich called the 'beholder's share'. The intellect, not the eye, is entertained. And this intellectual sculpture, this 'virtual' sculpture, cannot be considered in terms of views or images, not even three-dimensional ones. It cannot even be visualised—to do so is to compromise, to break the spell, just for a moment. It is, in fact, very much like another sort of intellectual construction: the castle of words, which must, again, remain ever incomplete.

Is it any surprise, then, that I, who prize the intellectual above the visual, the unseen above the seen—I, who greedily want my share of the work—should prefer the history of art to art itself?

I personally don't know how to articulate where I stand on these matters, but I'll give it a preliminary try.

I do know that I find it harder intellectual work to look at sculptures than at paintings, just as Leonardo himself argues in his Treatise on Painting (Aside: imagine the strange pleasure of being able to say one thinks like that genius, at least in that regard). Whereas painting creates a virtual space into which the viewer enters, sculpture enters into the viewer's space, becoming quite literally a physical presence that the viewer has no choice but to negotiate at the most basic of levels. The Abstract Expressionist painter Ab Reinhart's quip, "Sculpture is something you bump into when you back up to look at a painting,” indirectly makes that very point.

As for "art or art history," I suppose this blog's existence is a partial answer to that question: If I truly privileged art over art history, I'd either be silent or take some art classes and try to produce some Art myself. But as I read Roth's post some rather unpleasant memories from my grad school days came to mind, memories of times when among my peers it seemed as though theory-for-theory's-sake seemed to matter more than its efficacy when employed in reading actual texts--or, for that matter, that theory lead us back to rather than away from the text. I feel certain, based on my reading of his blog, that Roth's goal is to lead back to the work, equipped with his insight into it. I claim no insights or special knowledge; all I claim, really, is the desire to become better at articulating what I see when I look at these works. Knowing some unsuspecting soul might stumble upon these posts, I try to make his/her accidental visit here as worth his/her time as I am able--not as regards me, though, but as regards the work I'm commenting on. Isn't that all "art history" should do, really?


Gwynne said...

Interesting. I find that I prefer paintings over sculpture (I'm the one who backs up into sculptures as I'm trying to look at paintings) and I think, after reading Roth's notes, it's for the same reason I prefer books over movies. It's the dreams and impressions I want, not truth (in the Platonic sense). I enjoy the interaction of my imagination with the work and in this sense, the experience becomes more spiritual, more whole.

And I would probably lean toward art over art history, although the two are difficult to separate. I wish I could better articulate what I see, and certainly the study of art history helps in this regard. I think you have a gift for this which is what makes your blogs so interesting.

chris miller said...

Hi John,

I'm also a fan of many Baroque masters -- and here's my contribution to the period (or maybe you'd call this Rococo ?)

Regarding the above post -- there's one paragraph I'd like to discuss:

If I truly privileged art over art history, I'd either be silent or take some art classes and try to produce some Art myself.

You could also be a collector (of photos and memories, if not the original objects) - and if taste comes first -- this is the most important option.

I try to make his/her accidental visit here as worth his/her time as I am able--not as regards me, though, but as regards the work I'm commenting on. Isn't that all "art history" should do, really?

Actually, I'd rather read how the works feel to you -- and I'm only interested in art history as a detail of a narrative that ddresses broader issues.(as Barzun has done)

I don't want explanations.

I want commentary that leads away from, rather than to the text/painting/compostion etc.
(but I might be a minority of one !)

Or maybe not -- after all, this blog is called "admiring Baroque art" - not "understanding" it.

Robert said...

Excellent post and wonderful blog.

For me Art is all about the future, that is one good reason I favour sculpture. A painting is an image that is past, even if it is predicting the future.

History is a great subject to study both to understand the future and for its own sake, especially enjoyable in investigation.

Some would say History repeats itself; I would like to believe we are in a new Renaissance leaving behind somewhat patchy Art of the 20th century to History!

R. Sherman said...

I've been thinking about this for a couple of days and still can't get my mind around it.

I will say this: When I look at a painting, I want to visualize what's "off camera" if you will. As you say, I'm drawn into that world.

Yet, I can still imagine a block of marble, a hammer and chisel and wonder how an artist could see the finished product within it.

Don't know. More later perhaps.


John B. said...

Thanks to all of you for the comments and kind words.

Gwynne, like you I tend to prefer paintings over sculptures, but I must admit that I've been led to think about sculpture in a very different way now than I had before. Something of a paradigm shift for me.

Chris, I too want to get to Understanding. This place won't shy away from theorizing. As I said above, though, I personally have little patience or use for theory that's more interested in scoring points in favor of/against the work of other theorists than it is in enhancing our understanding of--and maybe even our admiration for--an artwork or, in the case of this blog, an epoch in art.

Robert, if you find your way back here, I hope you'll comment on this statement:

For me Art is all about the future, that is one good reason I favour sculpture. A painting is an image that is past, even if it is predicting the future.

I'm curious as to how, to your mind, sculpture escapes the past-ness that is the fate of the painted image. Is it because, as I said above, sculpture exists in our actual space (something painting does not do)?

Randall, I hear you.

Robert said...

As part of the introduction to my own sculpture I said;
“Sculpture is in our time and space..”
This suggests more than just the physical space.

A sculpture is complete, unlike a painting which is “cut out of a scene” it is in our time and physical space. This gives it a future in our physical space. (weak but true to my mind).

A sculpture can pose real emotion in us. A reaction to an imminent future event can be more poignantly made than by a painting or photograph. Imaging a life size sculpture of Diana, her bow at the moment of release aimed at the ground six feet away in front of her. You get down there on the floor at the point of her aim and see how it feels! I think I will do such a work, please do not tell any one yet!

Sculpture has a future to us as we view, feel its presence, touch it and walk round or amongst it. That is a future that is denied in a painting. (I am intrigued by the Burgers being separated like that, it would be interesting to walk amongst them, though they may not be high on my list of Rodins to see again, this may make a difference.)

I hope you will forgive the thinking that was behind my answer which I outline below, some relevant some not.

Technical point:

As Chris Miller has so often pointed out sculpture has so many visual aspects, meaning it can be seen from so many points of view. Take a video camera and try it first from floor level all the way round until you reach the tip of the pyramid directly above it as if you were spiralling round it in a mini helicopter. Avoiding excessive distortion of foreshortening by not being too close, you may then find a good interesting painting very boring in comparison to a good interesting sculpture!

Subject matter:

Now I accept that some paintings can be quite fascinating. First of all because of the charismatic effect of beauty or “aesthetic value”, second the subject matter and most of all the story or meaning or message that the painter is trying to present if any. The composition, skill and intellect behind a masterpiece is just as intricate, taxing and accomplished as a masterpiece of Writing or Music. I will in due course post two simple examples of obscure paintings largely unanalysed by the great and good on my blog to illustrate this point.


Sculptors are faced with a huge handicap against painters. How many works such as Taft’s “Fountain Of Time”
could be funded without strings of subject matter cost and final location? “The Animals In War” is another example; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animals_in_War_Memorial

Time is also a factor in creating such works and usually involve a lot of “third parties” unlike a painter who is a sole proprietor!
If, as a sculptor, I had this terrible urge to a create a work dealing with “Urban Deprivation”, or “Third World Disaster”, or lets be more cheerful ,“Olympic Triumph”; which was to consist of 100+ people in various different situations with accompanying animals and relevant objects how on earth would I get the funding? Now a large scale painting would not pose such a problem.

This brings us to the point “size matters”. When does a work become a sculpture or when is it an ornament? When is it monumental or just a statue? When does it fit your interpretation of “A Work Of Art” and is size a factor?

If Art is about expressing emotion, again I ask does size matter?

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